Internet Engineering Task Force P. Savola Internet Draft CSC/FUNET Expiration Date: April 2003 October 2002 IPv6 Multicast Deployment Issues draft-savola-v6ops-multicast-issues-00.txt Status of this Memo This document is an Internet-Draft. Internet-Drafts are working documents of the Internet Engineering Task Force (IETF), its areas, and its working groups. Note that other groups may also distribute working documents as Internet-Drafts. Internet-Drafts are draft documents valid for a maximum of six months and may be updated, replaced, or obsoleted by other documents at any time. It is inappropriate to use Internet-Drafts as reference material or to cite them other than as "work in progress." The list of current Internet-Drafts can be accessed at http://www.ietf.org/ietf/1id-abstracts.txt. To view the list Internet-Draft Shadow Directories, see http://www.ietf.org/shadow.html. Abstract There are many issues concerning the deployment and implementation, and to a lesser degree, specification of IPv6 multicast. This memo describes known problems, trying to raise awareness. Currently, global IPv6 interdomain multicast is completely impossible except using SSM: there is no way to convey information about multicast sources between PIM RPs. Site-scoped multicast is also problematic when used alongside to global multicast because of that. A few possible solutions are outlined or referred to. In addition, an issue regarding link-local multicast-blocking Ethernet switches is brought up. Finally, a feature request for MLD snooping switches is noted. Savola [Expires April 2003] [Page 1] Internet Draft draft-savola-v6ops-multicast-issues-00.txt October 2002 Table of Contents 1. Introduction ............................................... 2 2. Issues with Multiple PIM Domains and Any Source Multicast .. 2 2.1. Changing the Multicast Usage Model ..................... 3 2.2. Implementing MSDP for IPv6 ............................. 3 2.3. Implementing Another Multicast Routing Protocol ........ 4 2.4. Embedding the Address of the RP in Multicast Address ... 4 2.5. Site-local Group Scoping ............................... 4 3. Neighbor Discovery Using Multicast ......................... 5 4. MLD Snooping Ethernet Switches ............................. 5 5. Security Considerations .................................... 6 6. Acknowledgements ........................................... 6 7. References ................................................. 6 7.1. Normative References ................................... 6 7.2. Informative References ................................. 6 Author's Address ............................................... 7 1. Introduction There are many issues concerning the deployment and implementation, and to a lesser degree, specification of IPv6 multicast. This memo describes known problems, trying to raise awareness. Currently, global IPv6 interdomain multicast is completely impossible except using SSM: there is no way to convey information about multicast sources between PIM RPs. Site-scoped multicast is also problematic when used alongside to global multicast because of that. A few possible solutions are outlined or referred to. These are discussed in section 2. In addition, an issue regarding link-local multicast-blocking Ethernet switches is brought up. Finally, a feature request for MLD snooping switches is noted. These are discussed in sections 3 and 4, respectively. 2. Issues with Multiple PIM Domains and Any Source Multicast For both administrative and technical reasons, there must be multiple Protocol-Independent Multicast (PIM) [PIM] domains in the Internet, which means there will be multiple PIM Rendezvous Points (RPs) -- and communication mechanisms between these RPs will become critical. These issues only come up with classical Any Source Multicast; Source-Specific Multicast [SSM] does not require RPs and is not Savola [Expires April 2003] [Page 2] Internet Draft draft-savola-v6ops-multicast-issues-00.txt October 2002 affected, as the multicast "channel" is identified by the combination and can be communicated out-of-band. In IPv4, notification of multicast sources between these PIM RPs is done with Multicast Source Discovery Protocol (MSDP) [MSDP]. Many consider this a sub-optimal, but unfortunately necessary, solution; when it was specified, it was only meant as a "stop-gap" measure. Below, some issues and solutions/work-arounds are described. 2.1. Changing the Multicast Usage Model As "Any Source Multicast" -model has been found to be complex and a bit problematic, there may be an incentive to move to SSM for good (at least for most cases). SSM is ideal for "broadcast" -type applications, but can be argued to be a bit lacking in e.g. "videoconference" -type applications (as it may be desirable to have data flow directly between each participant). However, in the latter case, as with telephone teleconferences, it is often very desirable for one party to act as a chair or a "hub". In this case, other participants could send their data using unicast to the hub and hub could retransmit all data using SSM, though. One could argue that the added latency of circulating the data through the hub may be unacceptable; however, at least in the bigger conferences (where usually using multicast really matters) this does not seem like a big problem because there must be some control of the order of speech anyway. In any case, even though SSM would avoid mentioned problems, it is far from being generally implemented, much less deployed, yet. Nonetheless, few seem to realize that SSM is currently the only way to get global interdomain multicast in IPv6. 2.2. Implementing MSDP for IPv6 One could argue that currently, the easiest stop-gap solution (to a stop-gap solution) would be to specify IPv6 TLV's for MSDP. This would be fairly straightforward, and existing implementations would probably be relatively easily modifiable. There has been some resistance to this, as MSDP was not supposed to last this long in the first place, though. Whether this is a "good" or "bad" decision is a matter of opinion. Savola [Expires April 2003] [Page 3] Internet Draft draft-savola-v6ops-multicast-issues-00.txt October 2002 2.3. Implementing Another Multicast Routing Protocol One possibility might be to specify and/or implement a different multicast routing protocol. In fact, Border Gateway Multicast Protocol (BGMP) [BGMP] has been specified for a few years; however, it seems quite complex and there have been no implementations. Lacking deployment experience and specification analysis, it is difficult to say which problems it might solve (and possibly, which new ones to introduce). In conclusion, looking for a solution in BGMP may not be realistic in this time frame. 2.4. Embedding the Address of the RP in Multicast Address One way to work around these problems would be to allocate and assign multicast addresses in such a fashion that the address of the RP could be automatically calculated from the multicast address. At the first glance, this appears to be an impossible problem: the address of the RP, as well as the multicast address, are both 128 bits long; in the general case, embedding one in the other is impossible. However, making some assumptions about multicast addressing, this is can be done -- a proposed solution is presented in a different memo [V6RPADDR]. Some minor changes in existing PIM specifications would have to be done to take advantage of this, though (but non-modified implementations would be no worse than today). One should note that MSDP is also used in "Anycast RP" [ANYCASTRP] -technique, for sharing the state information between different RP's in one PIM domain; without further specification, anycast-RP technique could not be used with "embedded RP address" mechanism. 2.5. Site-local Group Scoping Site-local groups must be their own PIM domains to prevent site-local data leaking to other sites. A more complex possibility would be to implement something resembling "BSR border" feature which would filter out all site-local components in PIM packets: if this is not done very carefully, site-local information will leak to the global network. This is operationally difficult, and PIM working group has come to consensus that a scope boundary MUST also be a a site boundary for certain critical PIM messages (e.g. C-RP and Bootstrap). Especially if site-local multicast is used (and the site also wants to engage in global multicast), there will be a huge number of Savola [Expires April 2003] [Page 4] Internet Draft draft-savola-v6ops-multicast-issues-00.txt October 2002 domains and communication required between them. This will increase the need for a global multicast solution. 3. Neighbor Discovery Using Multicast Neighbor Discovery [NDISC] uses link-local multicast in the most common link-layer media, not broadcast as does ARP with IPv4. This may cause some operational problems with some equipment. The author has seen two brands of managed Ethernet switches that do not forward IPv6 link-layer multicast packets to other ports at all. In essence, native IPv6 is impossible with this equipment. Investigation is still going on whether these issues can be worked around. However, it seems likely this may be a problem with some switches that build multicast forwarding state based on Layer 3 information (and do not support IPv6); state using Layer 2 information would work just fine [MLDSNOOP]. For the deployment of IPv6, it would be important to find out how this can be fixed (e.g. how exactly this breaks specifications) and how one can identify which equipment could case problems like these (and whether there are workarounds). 4. MLD Snooping Ethernet Switches Especially if multicast traffic is relatively heavy (e.g. video streaming), it becomes particularly important to have Multicast Listener Discovery (MLD) snooping implemented in some equipment, most importantly Ethernet switches [MLDSNOOP]. In addition, there have been some misunderstandings wrt. which multicast addresses (in particular, link-locals) MLD reports (utilized in the snooping) should be generated for. If all implementations do not generate enough MLD reports, the introduction of MLD snooping could cause them being blocked out. Clarifications and analysis on what MLD snooping switches can reasonably expect would be very important. Savola [Expires April 2003] [Page 5] Internet Draft draft-savola-v6ops-multicast-issues-00.txt October 2002 5. Security Considerations Only deployment/implementation issues are considered, and these do not have any particular security considerations; security considerations for each technology are covered in the respective specification. One fairly obvious issue raised in this memo is that if there is no adminsitrative PIM domain border between site-local multicast domains, the site-local traffic could very easily flow into other sites and the Internet. 6. Acknowledgements Early discussions with Stig Venaas, Jerome Durand, Tim Chown et al. led to the writing of this draft. Brian Haberman offered extensive comments along the way. "Itojun" Hagino brought up the need for MLD snooping in a presentation. 7. References 7.1. Normative References [NDISC] Narten, T., Nordmark, E., Simpson W., "Neighbor Discovery for IP Version 6 (IPv6)", RFC2461, December 1998. 7.2. Informative References [ANYCASTRP] Dorian, K. et al, q(Anycast RP mechanism using PIM and MSDP", work-in-progress, draft-ietf-mboned-anycast- rp-08.txt, May 2001. [BGMP] Thaler, D., "Border Gateway Multicast Protocol (BGMP)", work-in-progress, draft-ietf-bgmp-spec-03.txt. June 2002. [MLDSNOOP] Christensen, M., Solensky, F., "IGMP and MLD snooping switches", work-in-progress, draft-ietf-magma- snoop-02.txt, June 2002. [MSDP] Farinacci, D. et al, "Multicast Source Discovery Protocol (MSDP)", work-in-progress, draft-ietf-msdp-spec-13.txt (expired), 2002. [PIM] Fenner, B. et al, "Protocol Independent Multicast - Sparse Mode (PIM-SM): Protocol Specification (Revised)", work-in-progress, draft-ietf-pim-sm-v2-new-05.txt, March 2002. Savola [Expires April 2003] [Page 6] Internet Draft draft-savola-v6ops-multicast-issues-00.txt October 2002 [SSM] Holbrook, H. et al, "Source-Specific Multicast for IP", work-in-progress, draft-ietf-ssm-arch-00.txt, November 2001. [V6RPADDR] Savola, P., "Embedding the Address of RP in IPv6 Multicast Address", work-in-progress, draft-savola-mboned-mcast-rpaddr-00.txt, October 2002. Author's Address Pekka Savola CSC/FUNET Espoo, Finland EMail: psavola@funet.fi Savola [Expires April 2003] [Page 7]